Dr. Wayne Dyer

When I heard that Dr. Wayne Dyer had a book entitled, The Power of Intention, I was intent to have a one-on-one discussion with him about this universal force in nature, especially after my recent conversation with Dr. Deepak Chopra on SynchroDestiny.

Dr. Chopra had this to say about the power of intention, “…we unusually think of intention as just a thought but intention is a force in nature. Scientist who recognizes this talk about a phenomenon called Teleology which is used to explain biological evolution which says if you know the intended outcome in evolution you will be able to predict the biological outcome for it. For example, a giraffe has a long neck because the intended outcome was to reach up to the tree and eat the leaf. A camel has a certain anatomy because its intended outcome was to walk the desert and there was no water. So intentions are responsible for what we call creativity in nature and they are part of the forces of nature as gravity, as much as electromagneticism, as much as the sub atomic forces are. Once you realize that you learn to harness a part of intention by going to that level where in nature the entire universe is really a tapestry of intention.”

Intention is generally viewed as a pit-bull kind of determination propelling one to succeed at all costs by never giving up on an inner picture. In this view, an attitude that combines hard work with an indefatigable drive toward excellence is the way to succeed. However, intention is viewed very differently in Dr. Wayne W. Dyer’s book, The Power of Intention. Dr. Dyer has researched intention as a force in the universe that allows the act of creation to take place. This book explores intention—not as something you do—but as an energy you’re a part of. We’re all intended here through the invisible power of intention. This is the first book to look at intention as a field of energy that you can access to begin co-creating your life in the way you desire.

Part I deals with the principles of intention, offering true stories and examples on ways to make the connection. Dr. Dyer identifies the attributes of the all-creating universal mind of intention as creative, kind, loving, beautiful, expanding, endlessly abundant, and receptive, explaining the importance of emulating this source of creativity. In Part II, Dr. Dyer offers an intention guide with specific ways to apply the co-creating principles in daily life. Part III is an exhilarating description of Dr. Dyer’s vision of a world in harmony with the universal mind of intention.

Dr. Wayne W. Dyer is an internationally renowned author and speaker in the field of self-development. He has written numerous bestselling books, including There’s a Spiritual Solution to Every Problem, Dr. Wayne Dyer’s 10 Secrets for Success and Inner PeaceGetting In the Gap, A Promise Is a Promise, and Your Sacred Self, has created a number of audios and videos; and has appeared on thousands of television and radio programs, including The Today Show, The Tonight Show, and Oprah.

With unique interpretations of the scientific and metaphysical philosophies of history’s greatest thinkers, Dr. Dyer has inspired countless people to enjoy richer, more spiritual lives. In the following interview, he talks about the power of intention and his own life’s path.

Philippe Matthews
What exactly is the power of intention?

The Power of Intention

Dr. Dyer
“Most people think of intention as if they have an intention to do something then nothing is going to stop me. It’s like a pit-bull attitude. A lot of the great teachings, particularly the teachings of Castaneda and that whole world of sorcery, they talk about intent not as something that you do but as a field of energy that everything in the universe is intended here from the source.”

Philippe Matthews
When you ask the question where do I come from, most people speak of conception but in actuality we come from divine intention, yes?

Dr. Dyer
“Quantum physics teaches us that when you look at an atom and try and take it down to its tiniest component you will find that there are no particles in there. Basically, it’s a field of energy and that field of energy that we come from is invisible and has no form. I think the basis of quantum physics is that particles do not create more particles and that’s what Jesus said more than two thousand years ago, ‘it’s the Spirit that gives life.’ Everything is intended here from a source.”

Philippe Matthews
What is the basis of your book, The Power of Intention?

Dr. Dyer
“The basis of this book is that you have to be like that from which you emanated. You have to reconnect with your source. What does this energy field that is responsible for everything, including the minerals, the vegetables, the animals, the trees, the automobiles, the planets; everything that shows up from this invisible field of energy called intention. What does it look like, what does it sound like, what does it feel like? You have to be like that. When we got here from this field of intention, we took on something called the ego and it convinced us that we are separate from God and we are separate from our source and everybody else and who we are is not this divine energy. We have a tendency to believe that who we are is what we have, what we do and who we defeat and how much stuff we collect and what are reputations are. This is about reconnecting to our source. Castaneda said, ‘it isn’t a question of whether you are connected to source, everything is connected to source, you wouldn’t be here if it weren’t.’ The real question is how dirty is the link between yourself and your source. This is about cleaning up the link and living from source energy – that is the power of intention.”

Philippe Matthews
So intention is a force of nature?

Dr. Dyer
“It is a force of nature and when you connect to it and act like it then you regain the same power that it has because you and it are one. Once you reconnect to it and start living at that energy level, you have the power to create, you have the power to manifest, you have the power to heal, you have the power to attract into your life virtually anyone with any assistance you need for whatever it is you would like to have in your life. You virtually become a magician if you will, but it means staying with source energy. I call them the seven faces of intention and one of them for example, is the face of kindness. An energy field that can create worlds, doesn’t need to create anything that is unkind toward it. It doesn’t have any hatred in it so every single time you have a thought that is unkind toward someone else or something else you have left source energy. You have resisted being at source energy and you have lost your ability to intend.”

Philippe Matthews
You began your inspiration for this book during your surgery as you were completing A Spiritual Solution to Every Problem is that correct?

Dr. Dyer
“Yes, and I came across a quote that is the display quote for the opening chapter in The Power of Intention, ‘In the universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link.’ I carried that around with me and thought about it.”

Philippe Matthews
The Power of Intention has become a powerful PBS Special but your message is energy in expression across the world.

Dr. Dyer
“Even doing an interview with you; putting it out on the internet, this is a shift in energy and it’s the kind of shift that the whole planet, including the George W. Bush’s, the Sadaam’s, the Rumfeld’s and everybody else out there — we really need to shift to this kind of awareness that all of us come from the same source and as the native American’s say, ‘No tree has branches so foolish as to fight among themselves.’ We have to learn that lesson.”

Philippe Matthews
The masses are searching for something much higher than what they have been receiving each week through their current doctrines and sources.

Dr. Dyer
“I think people are leaving organized religion in massive numbers and one of the reasons that they are doing it is because if you measure organized religion on the Hawkins scale of whether it weakens or strengthens you, when you ask people questions about organized religion and what impact it has on their life and you do kinesthesiological tests, you’ll see that it weakens you because organized religion divides people up. It compartmentalizes people and makes some people eligible and some people not, whereas spirituality is something that unites people. Anything that unites us as a people strengthens us and anything that divides us weakens us. We have to look at what are the things out there that divide us and carve us up. Our political organizations, our sense of nationalism, our patriotism, our religion, our organizations – so much of that stuff is designed to pit one of us against the other. There is not enough out there that really looks at how we are all connected and come from the same source.”

Philippe Matthews
So the power of intention is really a part of our normal spiritual/human evolution…

Dr. Dyer
“Yes, if you want to know what it sounds like, it’s Krishna who is the voice in the Bhagavad Gita speaking, ‘I am the source of all. Everything emanates from me.’ If you want to know what it feels like, if you open up the Torah in the Old Testament, the opening line in Genesis 1:1 says ‘In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.’ Then if you look at Genesis 1:31 it says, ‘And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.’ Good and God are the same thing. So, what does it feel like to be connected to the source? It feels good. If you call my cell phone and listen to the message, it says, ‘Hi, this is Wayne Dyer that you’ve reached and I want to feel good. If your message is designed to do anything other than that, you’ve reached the wrong number and I suggest that you call Dr. Phil!’ Feeling good doesn’t just mean feeling giddy or high, it means I want to feel God. God and good become the same. So when you say, ‘I want to feel good,’ what you are really saying is, ‘I want to feel God,’ which means I want to feel exactly like that sense of wellbeing that everything emanates from.”

“People say how can they feel good when there is so much bad going around? With so many people out there who are being mean to each other. My sister-in-law has cancer. Soldiers are dying from explosions; my response to that is you can’t feel bad enough to make someone else’s life better. You can’t get confused enough to un-confuse one person. You can’t get sick enough to heal one person out there so anytime you are feeling anything other than the good or God, what you are doing is contributing to rather than encouraging others to reconnect to their source.”

The Dr. Wayne Dyer Library:

Marianne Williamson

Marianne Williamson is an internationally acclaimed author and lecturer. She has published eight books, four of which – including the mega bestseller A Return to Love and Everyday Grace – have been #1 New York Times bestsellers. Her titles also include Illuminata, A Woman’s Worth, and Healing the Soul of America. She also edited Imagine: What American Could Be in the 21st Century, a compilation of essays by some of America’s most visionary thinkers.

Marianne has been a popular guest on numerous television programs such as Oprah, Larry King Live, Good Morning America, and Charlie Rose.

She has lectured professionally since 1983. In 1989, she founded Project Angel Food (http://www.projectangelfood.org), a meals-on-wheels program that serves homebound people with AIDS in the Los Angeles area. Today, Project Angel Food serves over 1,000 people daily.

In a conversation with Marianne, not long after 911 about her book, The Gift of Change: Spiritual Guidance for a Radically New Life, released by Harper Collins, I asked her how did this book come about?

Marianne Williamson
“I think when you get to meet anybody as a reader; to really reach them is if you are speaking from what is true to you. All of my books are speaking from where I was at that moment. What am I thinking about?  What am I going through? This book is no different. I was really fascinated by this principle in A Course in Miracles that the moment a mistake occurs, the complete healing of the mistake, the solution to any problem is born into the mind of God the moment the mistake occurs. I was really interested in how that applied to the World Trade Center bombings being hit by those planes. If you follow the principles in A Course In Miracles, it will tell that the moment the planes hit the World Trade Center this plan was created that would completely heal this whole problem but God can’t do for us what He can’t do through us.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
Talk to me about God’s Plan.

Marianne Williamson
“We say that God has a plan by definition it’s a plan that people carry out but the state of the world we are in now reflects the state of consciousness we’ve been in. So to say God has a plan for the healing of the world means also God has a plan for us becoming the people we need to be. It seems to me that the stress, not just that the world has been in but so many individuals have been in the last year or two has been as though subconsciously we’ve been putting ourselves through changes that would come about when we face the issues we need to face in order to breakthrough and become the people we need to be.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
In your introduction of the book; “The Challenge to Grow”, you talk about a collective depression.  Please explain what you meant by that.

Marianne Williamson
“I do think there is a collective depression because after 9/11 and what I talk about in the book is that we don’t have a positive conversation about emotional depth, spiritual depth and intellectual depth. Case in point, there is a singer, Jessica Simpson and her husband Nick. Maybe I have heard this woman sing one song on television but I do know this, I can’t go anywhere; buy a carton of milk or pass a newsstand without being confronted by these magazines that ask the question, ‘will Jessica and Nick’s marriage make it?’ I don’t even know who these people are but I do know this. There are people dieing in Iraq, I know that we have not handled this terrorism issue, I know that a lot of the world is angry at us and I know that there is a lot of human suffering so why are we obsessed and why is the media focusing on whether or not Jessica and Nick’s marriage makes it?  This is a perfect example of the neurosis of our popular culture.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
Talk to me about this social avoidance and detachment. How dangerous is this for the collective consciousness?

Marianne Williamson
“I think that in an individual’s life, it’s really to your detriment if you don’t look at your own mistakes. You never look at your own failings and you never look at your weaknesses. If you go to therapy and you only talk about what you are doing right, you have the wrong therapist. Self awareness is the key to everything. Once you know that your life is a reflection of your consciousness then you know to look at your own self and your own failings is absolutely imperative if you want to move forward. But when it comes to our national life, which is the same dynamic because all a nation is a collection of individuals. What happens here is that in our national life if anybody says, ‘well, America needs to look at their own failings and their own weaknesses.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
Is there something we as Americans should focus on?

Marianne Williamson
“The people of the United States really need to take a look at what their foreign policy has been over the last two decades; how it has affected the world; what people attitudes are to us… which by the way, people were eager to have an investigation right after 9/11. The average American was asking, ‘why do they hate us?’ but then we went into this mode of war where all you are suppose to do is be a cheerleader for revenge and if you questioned this at all whether or not America needs to look at its own failings, you were unpatriotic. They would say that you are blaming America which of course you are not. So that’s where we are. We can have meaningful conversations as individuals but our worst problems are not as individuals. Many of our worst problems are collective. They are problems that you and I are having together, so deepening the popular dialogue, deepening the collective conversations I believe is the real imperative of this moment.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
How do we begin deepening the collective dialogue?

Marianne Williamson
“Well, you are doing it! Media sources, usually alternative media sources because the mainstream media is very much a hand maiden of the status quo, very much locked into ‘let’s keep it light.’ But people like yourself Philippe, and other people like yourself all over this country who represent an alternative media that present a different gestalt a different conversation and I think if you put it all together, there is a lot of it out there.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
Have we come far from 911 or are we back in the same collective consciousness that got us there?

Marianne Williamson
“Yes that what our leadership told us to do. Bush’s line was basically we hadn’t done anything wrong and that we are so good and so free that people are jealous of us and all we have to do is keep shopping and we’ll take care of it. That’s basically been the party line. While there is some truth in that, I do think there are people who are jealous of us because we are good and free but I don’t think that is the whole story and that’s the importance of leadership and that is the line that emanated from the White House and a line that a lot of people followed.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
On page 7 in your introduction, you say “Most of us live with a deep, subconscious longing for another kind of world.” What did you mean by that?

Marianne Williamson
“Obviously we all feel in our hearts that some magic is missing. Why do you think books like Harry Potter are so phenomenally popular? Its not just children its adults as well who wish for something beyond the veil. That’s why we read fiction, that’s why we go to the movies, that’s why we listen to music, read poetry and strive in all kinds of ways.  There’s a magic we get; we get it when a baby is born, when we fall in love and even in an ironic way when someone dies. The mystery hits that pierces the veil of illusion and we are reminded of something bigger than this and I think it’s the longing of our souls.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
Talk to me about how we avoid the truth of what is happening to us?

Marianne Williamson
“I think we need to understand that the popular culture in America today is toxic and we have to make a conscious decision to detach from it more. That doesn’t mean pieces of it aren’t fun and escape and entertainment every once and a while is not a good thing. I’m not prudish or over serious, I’m just saying there is a general tenor of dialogue that is very, very shallow.  We are in a time in our history when we cannot afford to be shallow, we cannot afford to turn away from the deeper conversation that begs to be had. So that is number one; number two I think if you really want to become a part of the solution that you need to genuinely take part in some kind of religious or spiritual practice — something that involves prayer, something that involves meditation, something that involves a serious effort to forgive.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
Talk to me about making a choice in the moment.

Marianne Williamson
“In every moment we make a choice; our heart is open or our heart is closed; you are blaming somebody or you are blessing somebody; you are bitching and moaning about what you are not getting or you are asking what you might contribute.  You are looking at infinite possibilities and claiming them for yourself or you are thinking along the lines of ‘oh I can’t and it won’t happen for me.’ In the course in miracles there is a line that says, ‘We achieve so little because our minds are undisciplined.’ We have flabby minds with fear-based thoughts or limited thoughts or scarcity based thoughts and we can change that.”

Further Reading:

Robert Kiyosaki’s Answer:

When I first heard about network marketing, I was against it.  But after opening my mind, I began to see advantages that few other business opportunities offer.

Long-term success in life is a reflection of your education, life experience and personal character.  Many network-marketing companies provide personal development training in those key areas.

Most schools train people for the E or S quadrants, and that is great if those are the quadrants in which you want to spend your life.  Most MBA programs are training students for high-paying jobs in the corporate world as an E, not a B.

What if you’re in the E or S quadrant and you want to change?  What if you want to be in the B quadrant?  Where do you find the education that trains you for that quadrant?  I recommend a network-marketing business.  I recommend the industry for people who want to change and get the necessary skills and attitude training to be successful in the B quadrant.

Being an entrepreneur and building a B quadrant business is one of the toughest challenges a person can take on.  The reason there are more people in the E and S quadrants is simply because those quadrants are less demanding than the B quadrant.  As they say, “If it was easy, everyone would do it.”

Personally, I had to learn how to overcome my self-doubt, shyness and fear of rejection.  And I had to learn how to pick myself up and keep going after I failed.  These are some of the personal traits a person must develop if they are to be successful in a B quadrant business, regardless of whether it is a network-marketing business, a franchise or an entrepreneurial startup.

An important personal skill required for any B quadrant business is leadership.  Are you able to overcome your own fears and have others overcome their fears in order to get the job done?  This is a skill the Marine Corps taught me.  As Marine Corps officers, it was imperative that we be able to lead others into battle, even though we were all terrified of dying.

I meet many people in the S quadrant, the specialist or small business owners, who would like to expand, but they simply lack leadership skills.  No one wants to follow them.  The employees do not trust their leader or the leader does not inspire the employees to better themselves.

As mentioned earlier, Forbes defined a big-business owner, a B quadrant business owner, as a person who controls a business with more than 500 employees.  This definition is why leadership skills are vial for the B quadrant.

Where could you find a business that will invest the time in your education, your personal development and building your own business?  The answer is: most network-marketing business.

Building a B quadrant business is not an easy task.  So you need to ask yourself, “Do I have what it takes?  Am I willing to go beyond my comfort zones?  Am I willing to be led and willing to learn to lead?  Is there a very rich person inside of me, ready to come out?” If the answer is “Yes,” start looking for a network-marketing business that has a great training program.  I would focus less on the products or the compensation plans and more on the education and personal development program the company offers.

A network-marketing business is a B quadrant business because it meets several criteria I look for in a business or investment.  Those criteria are:

Isn’t Network Marketing A Pyramid Scheme?
I am often asked if network marketing is a pyramid scheme.  My reply is that corporations are really pyramid schemes.  A corporation has only one person at the top, generally the CEO, and everyone else below. The following is an example of a typical corporate pyramid:

Compare that to a network-marketing business system:

A true network-marketing business is the exact opposite of a traditional business model.  A network-marketing business is designed to bring you up to the top, not keep you down at the bottom.  A true network-marketing business does not succeed unless it brings people up to the top.
Additional Points Worth Mentioning
The following are some other points worth mentioning:

In the corporate world, if you are not successful in six months to a year, you are often fired.  In the network-marketing world, as long as you are willing to put in the time, most companies will work with you in your development.  After all, they want you to get to the top.

In conclusion
After opening my closed mind, I could finally see some of the unique benefits the network-marketing industry offers people who want more out of their lives.
Generally, it costs much less to get started in a network-marketing company than to build a business on your own.

-Robert Kiyosaki

Watch the full episode of Robert T. Kiyosaki on the Philippe Matthews Show

Donald Trump’s Response

Marketing is a powerful tool, and network marketing can increase that power, provided you are self-motivated.  In a simple visual, see a product and then remove the advertising agency from it.  It is up to you to do the marketing and advertising.

That’s a big job, but it can be done if you are passionate enough to get it going on your own and to jeep the momentum and motivation going at a high level.  It requires an entrepreneurial spirit, and that means focus and perseverance.  I do not recommend network marketing to people who are not highly self-motivated.

Another important aspect of network marketing is that it is inherently social, so if you are not a social or outgoing person, I’d think twice about going into it.  Sociability is a requirement.

Just like in advertising, there’s no point in having a fantastic advertising campaign if the product isn’t equally fantastic.  Also keep in mind that if you decide to become a distributor, you will be legally responsible for the claims you make about the product, the company and the available opportunities.  But above all, make sure the product is worth your energy and total devotion.  Otherwise, you could be energetically spinning your wheels.

Robert mentions the importance of going beyond your comfort zone when it comes to network marketing.  He also mentions giving yourself enough time.  These are good points to consider.  I would also agree that having leadership qualities is critical for success.  You definitely have to have a take-charge, can-do attitude.

As with any other undertaking, know everything you can about what you’re doing before you begin.  Network marketing has proven itself to be a viable and rewarding source of income, and the challenges could be just right for you.  There have been some remarkable examples of success, and those successes have been earned through diligence, enthusiasm and the right product combined with timing.  As with so many issues we have discussed before, there are tangibles and intangibles involved, but success is not a total mystery, and that applies to network marketing as well.

Most people have heard of focus  groups, a research tool that advertising agencies use when they are testing a new product.  They will go out to different locations and simply ask everyday people what they like and don’t like about a new product.  Its best if you can keep the focus group idea close at hand when you are deciding about a product.  Just because you like it doesn’t mean everyone else will.  Finding a common denominator in product appeal will matter.

My nutshell advice about network marketing is to do your research and then put everything you’ve got into your product.  Genuine enthusiasm is hard to beat, and the odds will be with you.

-Donald Trump

The Donald Trump Library

Dr. John F. Demartini

At the age of seven, John Demartini was told he had a learning disability and would never read, write or communicate normally. At fourteen, he dropped out of school, left his Texas home and headed for the California coast.

By seventeen, he had ended up in Hawaii, surfing the waves of Oahu’s famous North Shore where he almost died from strychnine poisoning. His road to recovery led him to Dr. Paul Bragg, the ninety-three year old man who would change his life forever by instructing him to repeat one simple affirmation every day: “I am a genius and I apply my wisdom.”

Today, he lectures, teaches and consults internationally with a mission to inspire wisdom, fulfillment, leadership and healing in individuals who desire to achieve their full potential. His personal and professional development seminars and programs explore diverse topics ranging from the arts and sciences, human potential technologies to the world religions and philosophies. His life’s work is the study and exploration of over 200 different disciplines in pursuit of what he calls Universal Principles of Life.

Founder of The Concourse of Wisdom and creator of The Quantum Collapse Process®, Dr. Demartini’s understanding of the power of love is reshaping psychology as we know it. His revolutionary personal transformation methodologies help tens of thousands of individuals find greater order within their lives by enabling them to live with greater clarity, certainty and presence. Dr. Demartini’s books and programs, including The Breakthrough Experience, Count Your Blessings, You’re Never Given a Problem You Can’t Solve, Building Wealth F.A.S.T., Purpose – Life’s Driving Force and The Principles and Methods of Self-Actualization continue to inspire thousands more.

Dr. Demartini’s latest book, How to Make One Hell of a Profit and Still Get to Heaven has swept the country and has taken Australia by storm.  In this content-rich interview, Dr. John F. Demartini shares some of the most effective techniques of building wealth I have come across.

Philippe Matthews
How to make one hell of a profit and still get to heaven.  Why this title?

Dr. Demartini
“I was in New York about seven or eight years ago, sitting in a restaurant on Madison Avenue and that title popped into my head. I had desired to write a book with that title for quite a while and didn’t get around to doing it until this last year. But it had been sitting there daggling in my brain for all that time and finally I got down to writing it.”

Philippe Matthews
What is heaven and what is hell? You say they are states of mind and not states of places.

Dr. Demartini
“Throughout the ages, man has referred to or had a desire for a pleasurable place and the desire to avoid a painful place in our minds and in our life. that has been conceptually evolved in the brain and if I were to define heaven as I do in the book, I would define it as a place where we are grateful and feel satiated and full and we are appreciative of our existence. That could be perceived as something in this existence and this life or we can perceive it occurring in the after-life but that is something we can’t demonstrate so I think it is best defined as a state of fulfillment and gratitude and appreciation for what is as it is. Hell is obviously the opposite in the sense that we are ungrateful and it’s not stratifying and we have a desire for something that is unattained.”

Philippe Matthews
What is the overall message you want to convey in this book?

Dr. Demartini
“The main thing that started it and drove the book was that so many people as I travel the world and share my work, many people have an internal conflict and sometimes internal dialogue possibly from religious instruction, from social instruction that creates a conflict between them receiving and giving.  Receiving wealth and feeling deserving of it and putting a value on building affluence and wealth in their life.  This conflict I have seen over and over again and it is my attempt to try and assist people to get past and through that initiation and conflict to help them receive what they really desire in their heart and what they feel they are here for and deserve to have.”

Philippe Matthews
You say that the universe is nothing more than light many different frequencies and so are we. Explain.

Dr. Demartini
“When we break our body down, and reduce it down to its systems, organs, tissues, cells, organelles – down to the molecules, atoms and down into the subatomic particles, all of the atoms and subatomic particles make up protons, electrons, neutrons and ultimately, those are broken down into components of light.  In fact, every atom has a signature frequency of light which is actually just a vibration of light.  When we break it down we realize that our body is literally frozen, liquid or congealed light.  We are literally a vibrational system of light that is now demonstrating a reception and broadcasting, like radio receiver, to other human beings and other life.  We are literally tuning systems so our consciousness is like a tuning device and we can attune to more grateful states when we have a balanced perspective and tune to more ungrateful states when we have an imbalanced perspective. When we bring order to our financial life, we are grateful and when we have chaos in our financial life we are ungrateful which are heaven and hell.”

“To the degree that we manage money wisely we receive more money to manage and it’s not how much we receive its how we manage what we receive that determines our financial affluence.”

Philippe Matthews
The concept of heaven/hell is really a lopsided perception being too far to the left and too far to the right?

Dr. Demartini
“When we have a poised and balanced state of consciousness, we see order around us and we have no desire to change what our existence is and we are grateful.”

Philippe Matthews
When spirit (cause) and matter (effect) come equally and fully together in your consciousness, heaven is born.  Elaborate.

Dr. Demartini
“Our desires and realities are one.  The things that we are seeking we realize are not missing and they are present. Many times the things we seek are actually present around us but are in a form we are not recognizing and the hexarchy of our values are determining the form.  Because we sometimes we infatuate with other authority figures, we attempt to inject their values into our life and live them and therefore because of it we can’t see that the things we actually desire from our own values are actually there but we can’t see them because we are trying to live someone else’s.”

Philippe Matthews
Wow! So nothing is really missing?

Dr. Demartini
“Nothing is really missing; it’s just in another form.  The book is not only a strategy on how to build wealth but it also has a psychology to help you realize you are already abundantly living.”

Philippe Matthews
You say it is important to pay yourself first – why?

Dr. Demartini
“We have a temple within and we have temples without – the one within and the many without.  It is wise to not exclude our spiritual temple within as we have the spiritual temples without.  It is wise to invest in both.  If we are going to do a tithe, it is best to do both simultaneously. If we are going to tithe to the outer world it’s also wise to tithe to that temple within.  That’s inclusive of the same temple.  What many people do is forsake themselves for others which was originally, when I traced back the history from that; a marketing ploy by religious institutionalism more so than a necessity for human consciousness.  I think there is wisdom in having fair exchange.  My whole book is based on the idea of fair exchange.”

Philippe Matthews
Talk to me about the dynamic of fair exchange.

Dr. Demartini
“If you have ever been in a situation where you have owed someone money and when you do you have the anxiety and fear of having to come up with the money and pay it over time. You also have the guilt that if you don’t what are the repercussions.  If someone owes you money, you have the fear of whether they pay it or not and you have the guilt that you put yourself in the situation.  Fear is a future imagined emotion and guilt is a past remembered emotion and neither of them are centered in presence. A spiritual state occurs in a state of presence so anytime we owe somebody or they owe us something, we’re actually coming out of the state of presence which is a spiritual state, and entering into an emotionally-based or grounding state that weighs us down and we are not able to have what is called fair and even exchange. When you do a service and they pay you on the spot, it’s clean, it’s done and you are both freed and liberated by that moment and feel you’ve got a fair exchange.  Anytime you do the other; the purpose of adding interest on either side was to attempt to maintain presence when there has been an exchange that is not in time.  When you owe someone, you add interest to compensate for not being present and compensating for all of those emotions.  The purpose of having fair exchange was to maintain, presence, clarity, cleanness, and not have to burden the mind by unexpressed or incomplete transactions.”

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Dr. John F. Demartini’s Library

Bob Proctor and Philippe SHOCK Matthews

The Science of Getting Rich with Bob Proctor

THE BACKGROUND

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
Tell me a little bit about your background. What was your childhood like, who were your parents and do you have any brothers or sisters?

Bob Proctor:
“I am originally from Owen Sound, Ontario in Canada. My father left at a very early age to the Second World War. My mother raised three of us, my brother, sister and myself. I have a younger brother, Al who is a successful Insurance Agent in California with State Farm and has been there for years. My sister is a couple of years older and she and her husband have a very successful Safety Supply Business in Toronto. My mother raised the three of us and kept her mother, who looked after us when we were small while our mother went to work. Although my mother never had anything, she always left us with the idea that if we really wanted to do it, we could do it. She had a simple awareness. Although I messed up and screwed up and we never had anything for years, there was that seed planted in my mind that if you want to do it, you can do it.”

“After a couple of months of high school, I left to join the Navy. I came out and worked in factories, bars and I was a firefighter in Toronto when I read Think And Grow Rich (Napoleon Hill), my whole world began to change. I think what really changed is the man who gave me Think And Grow Rich and became a mentor to me. Now, we didn’t call them mentors or counselors back then – he was just a guy that cared. Then, I met Lloyd Conant and Earl Nightingale and eventually went to work for them and they became my mentors. Next, I met Dr. Harry Roder and Bill Gove. I have always been fortunate enough to have people who were the very best at what they did as my mentors and I always watched them and paid close attention to what they did and emulated them. Tony Robbins calls it mirroring. That’s what I did. It’s not copying them; you are emulating them.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
Who was Wallace D. Wattles? How did you hear about him?

Bob Proctor:
“Lloyd Conant introduced me to it way back in 1968, I was about 35. I was having dinner at his place and asked him how did he come to start the company, and he explained to me that he had this little green book that he read and after spending a weekend reading it, he decided to build a company. In 1968, this was a little outside the box because people would think you were losing it. I decided that it should be taught because I have people who have read the book and they go through the seminar and swear that they never read the book because we really dig in to it. It’s incredible!”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
It’s really the psychology and spirituality of wealthy, yes?

Bob Proctor:
“Absolutely. It’s the most complete thing on money. I think most people are suffering from money deprivation and that is the cause of their problems. It’s a consciousness problem, and it just blocks all of the other areas of creativity in their life. I found a person would be absolutely amazed how much free time they will have when they never have to think about money.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
Isn’t it amazing when you don’t have to complain about money, you don’t have anything to complain about?

Bob Proctor:
“If you want to change your life, you have to change your life.”

THE SCIENCE OF GETTING RICH

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
You say that you don’t have to have a high degree of intelligence to be rich. Explain.

Bob Proctor:
“The way we look at the intellect, our whole school and educational system is based on the development of what we call the intellect. For example, a person with a lot of formal learning, where they gather an enormous amount of information and we say that they are an intellect; which in fact, no one is an intellect. We have intellectual factors, but there are people who are functionally illiterate who can’t read or write that earn millions of dollars a year. So, you would say that they don’t have a high degree of intelligence; but they have a unique level of awareness.”

Awareness is really the key. That’s what I believe our educational system should focus on – to develop a greater awareness of how things function. Who we are, what we do and what we are capable of doing. But that is neglected. So, you have people going around who appear to be absolutely brilliant, but they are not very aware. Subsequently, we have to become aware of who we are and what we are; then we’ll start to see with an inner eye and will be able to have a true reflection of what’s going on inside. The sad fact is, is that what’s going on inside with most people is a reflection of what’s going on outside; so they keep getting the same results over and over again. They are being seduced by outside conditions or circumstances.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
Aside from repeating the same mistakes over and over again in one’s life because of their internal beliefs, isn’t there a decision that must be made that, ‘This is the day I am going to make a permanent change in my life?’

Bob Proctor:
“There is no question about that. The first thing a person has to do is make the decision that they are going to do it – how they are going to do is irrelevant. They have to make a decision that they are going to do it and because most people don’t see how they are going to do it, they never decided to do it. The formula is the decision first – the information comes second. We are told to seek ‘ye first the kingdom of expansion’, and all these things will be given to whatever things are necessary for the manifestation of the image. We have to understand that we have to make the decision. For example, if I was going to make a decision to learn how to use Photoshop to build a powerful PowerPoint presentation; then I would find someone who has mastered Photoshop and I would get them to teach me how to do it, and I would do what they told me. I would make particularly good notes of what they said; and if I found that it wasn’t working right, I would go back to them and say there is something I don’t understand; could I have a couple more lessons.’”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
So, wealth is not a solo act; you need others to help you get there?

Bob Proctor:
“You need other people. Martin Rutt says, ‘You have to do it by yourself, and you can’t do it alone.’ That’s a puzzle and when the student solves the puzzle, they have created a higher degree of awareness. I have used that so often because it’s so perfect. Even though you need other people, you still have to do it yourself.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
What is the Law of Perpetual Transmutation, and how does it relate to wealth?

Bob Proctor:
“It relates to everything in the universe. I woke up this morning; it was a beautiful, bright, shining day. The sun was beaming through the windows. Then I noticed that it was starting to get dark and all of a sudden, it was snowing like blazes here. Then it stopped snowing and started to get bright again. The snow was on the ground and about one half hour later, it was gone. Well, the energy was moving into form. The form was snow; then it went back to where it came from, so energy is forever moving into form. Energy flows to and through us and the images we form in our mind dictate the physical form that the energy is going to eventually turn into and it moves with and through us. The energy moves us into a new vibration. The vibration sets up new action and sets up an attraction, so it’s the action and attraction that brings all of the energy together and manifests the energy into form. It’s the first law of the universe.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
Tell me about the Law of Cause and Effect and how it relates to wealth.

Bob Proctor:
“Well, Emerson says the Law of Cause and Effect is the ‘Law of Laws.’ You are going to receive what you put out. The universe sends back to you what you send to it. So, your level of expectation has a lot to do with it and determines what you send out. If you see wealth as a reward, which is really; what it is for service rendered it has nothing to do with work. I can be providing a service right now sharing this information with you and although you are not going to turn around and give me dollars in place of this, the universe is going to send me back money and it will come in many different forms. I can’t determine how it’s going to come, but the energy that I am sharing with you right now is a service that you are then going to take and share with your people. Together, we have banded our energies together and we are providing a service to the people that receive your Ezine. They are going to be doing business with us. You just have to think about giving. We’ve got to learn how to become good Go-Givers.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
So, in becoming a good ‘Go-Giver’, one must become a good thither, yes?

Bob Proctor:
“The novice that first gets involved with tithing and I think it’s a stage we all go through, is seeking a better way of life. Thus, we get into books, cassettes and seminars and we get this idea of tithing and don’t know if it really works. We try it and send some money and say ‘Well, nothing came back.’ We have to understand that if you are giving to get that’s trading, and a violation of the law. With tithing, we should freely give and let go of completely; part of our time, part of our knowledge, and part of our money. We should give from the source that we receive good from. For instance, I went into Michael Beckwith’s church; he invited me there to speak and I went with the idea of speaking because he invited me to speak. I was so richly rewarded just because of my presence there. It was so good that I couldn’t even describe it. Sometimes, you are going to do something for someone and you don’t realize that you will get it back immediately. You don’t have to give to a particular church on the corner in your town; it could be any source where you receive spiritual strength. We should be forever looking for an opportunity to give because that’s what life is all about. If we would just fall in love with that idea, regardless of what anybody else thinks, stay true to that, then we are going to receive because that’s the law and how cause and effect works.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
You say on The Science of Getting Rich that you can get rich going with the tide rather going against it. Explain.

Bob Proctor:
“If it’s a struggle to earn money, you are going against the tide. There should be no struggle. If we get into the divine current of life; that’s where the law of cause and effect comes in, that’s where tithing comes in; it has to be a free-flow. There is a difference between freely giving and taken. If people are taking advantage of you and some will, you are setting up a situation that is giving them an opportunity to violate the law. You shouldn’t permit yourself to be taken, and it’s a fine line, which is where the awareness comes in, but you should be forever looking for opportunities to give of your time, knowledge and money. I remember when I first started studying this, I was really working hard. I was in the Office Building Maintenance Business, and I literally passed out on the street. I thought the answer was work harder, get another office to clean; and of course, that wasn’t the answer at all.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
You say in nature, the supply of money, wealth or riches can never run short. What does that really mean?

Bob Proctor:
“Empty plates don’t feed hungry people. We think that there is a lack of money, but poor people can’t help people. Wealthy people help people. The more you earn, the more you can help people. Money is only used for two things; to be comfortable and to extend your service beyond your own presence. People, who think there is a lack of supply, have separated the non-physical world from the physical world. They say there is a line of demarcation, where one starts and the other stops. The non-physical world and physical world are all connected. This separate thinking has brought about all of the racial problems and the wars, religious problems, but we’re all connected and an expression of the same thing. Tell me where water stops becoming water and becomes steam. The steam and the water are all hooked together on various frequencies and each frequency is hooked up to the one above and the one below. You cannot separate the non-physical world from the physical world. I believe when we really understand that, we start to get along with one another like we are brothers, sisters and connected and we start to see that there is an infinite source of supply. There is no lack to supply. We have the creative faculty or ability to tap in to the non-physical world, build images and cause those images to move into form. Thus, we are creative beings.”

Philippe SHOCK Matthews:
You also say that you must think the truth regardless of appearances. Why?

Bob Proctor:
“You have to understand the truth is not always in the appearance of things. You have to grasp the concept that all things begin in thought. That is, thought truly is the preamble to everything. So, until you grasp that, you are going to let your present conditions or circumstances control your thinking; and it’s going to be repeat cycles of the same thing happening over and over again. My God, Philippe, you and I were caught up in that for years. I lived that way for so long; and you did too; as did most people. I wasn’t raised in a family where everyone understood this and there was plenty around. There was lack and limitation all around and we were blaming conditions, circumstances, other people, the government and everybody else for our situation. It wasn’t until somebody helped me to understand that if I wanted to change my life, I had to change my life.”

Recently known as the star of the Secret, Bob Proctor is an author, lecturer, counselor, business consultant, entrepreneur, and teacher of positive thinking, self-motivation and maximizing human potential through the Law of Attraction. In that endeavor, he follows in the footsteps of such motivational giants as Napoleon Hill, Earl Nightingale and Wallace D. Wattles. But Proctor carries the message of these great teachers a step higher and explains in terms understood by tots and tycoons alike how a person goes about recognizing their potential and how to apply this effort in setting and achieving life goals.

My first question to this wealth-building guru came from a question that was posed to me some years ago that I could not answer until this interview.  The question was why do some people believe it’s a sin to be rich and holy to be broke?  Bob Proctor quickly responded with, “I think we’re programmed.  I think it’s for a lot of reasons that we believe a lot of other nonsense.  It’s genetic and environmental programming. People don’t think and live with what they are programmed to believe.  Moreover, there’s so many poor people around that it would seem to make sense – they can’t all be bad people.  I think we’re conditioned genetically.  It’s not an accident that you look exactly like your uncle Harry.  The genetic conditioning is very strong and on top of that you have environmental conditioning.  Unfortunately, we’re programmed to take everything and reverse it.  It’s like we live from the physical to the spiritual when we should be going from the spiritual to the physical.  We live through our senses.  If you go by your senses, you’re going by the appearance of things and the truth is very rarely in the appearance of things.”

Bob’s book, You Were Born Rich is not just a title but an affirmation.  What a concept to believe and know we are all born rich.  “We’ve got deep reservoirs of talent and abilities within us,” Bob explained.  “There’s so much power locked up in us and it’s never used.  We’re rich resources – everyone is, most people are just a little short of money but riches…the most erudite scientist alive won’t guess at what you and I are capable of doing.”  In You Were Born Rich, there’s a chapter that asked the question, How Much Is Enough?  When I posed that question to Bob, he launched with a belly laugh and replied, “Well it depends on what you’re doing. To accumulate money just for the sake of accumulating money is a fool’s game and you will usually end up pretty unhappy, probably a sick person. Money is an instrument and it’s used for two things.  One is to make you comfortable and the other is to extend the service that you offer beyond your own presence.  You’ll hear people say, I really don’t want money, I just want to do good, well Wattles [Wallace D. Wattles] pointed out many years ago if that’s the case you should get rich first because the good you can do without the money is limited to your own presence.  So money is an instrument that enables you to extend what you’re doing far beyond where you are.”

He believes that money is a servant and we shouldn’t serve money.  “It is a wonderful servant but makes an absolutely terrible master.  Money will do whatever you tell it to do.  It’s greatly misunderstood.  Almost everything we’ve been taught about money is false.  Money has nothing to do with race, religion, gender, geography, it has nothing to do with formal education, it has nothing to do with your background, and it has nothing to do with your intelligence.  There are some very intelligent people who are broke and there are people who are not very bright at all who are multi-millionaires!  Money is based on one thing…decision.  You decide you’re going to have it or you decide that you’re not.“  Bob’s wisdom of wealth led one of the attendees at his wealth building seminars to offer: “Bob Proctor… brings all the great wisdom of Napoleon Hill, Wallace Wattles and others into a coherent whole that anyone can take home and apply…”

The Book That Changed Bob’s Life

Bob Proctor and Philippe SHOCK Matthews

Perhaps the reason Bob Proctor is so insightful into the factors that limit peoples’ success is rooted in the fact that he lived an aimless, purposeless existence for the first 26 years of his own life. Born in a little town in northern Ontario, Canada with the low self-esteem that often befalls a family’s middle child, he performed poorly in school, dropped out and did a hitch in the navy. Afterward he drifted from one dead-end job to another until a friend recognized potential in Bob that he had no awareness of himself. The friend introduced Bob to the concept of self-development through Napoleon Hill’s classic Think and Grow Rich. With the spark generated by Hill’s words, Proctor found the initiative to start an office cleaning business, which he grew to international scope in his first year of operation. From that experience – after seeing what he had been able to accomplish with just a rudimentary knowledge of personal motivation and goal setting – he hungered for more information. His quest took him to the Nightingale-Conant organization where he exhausted every opportunity to study under his mentor, Earl Nightingale. His intense study earned him an invitation to join the organization where, once on board, he rose swiftly through the ranks. Moreover, while the Nightingale-Conant organization assumed the forefront in wide-scale distribution of personal development programs, Bob felt the need to take his ideas and methods directly to the individual, to the one-on-one level, which had proved so successful for him.

In the mid 1970’s, Bob established his own seminar company and secured a contract to work with a few hundred agents of Prudential Life Insurance Co. of America in Chicago. During his first seminar Bob made the suggestion that any agent present could write $5 million in business that year if the agent made a decision to do so. The fact that the seminar took place in July with the year half over and that no agent in that region had ever written so much business in the 100-year history of the company made Bob’s suggestion appear to be outrageous. However, when the performance level of the entire division increased substantially with more than one agent actually accomplishing the deed, Bob’s reputation as a change agent was established. Over the ensuing years, Bob has shared his special message and expertise with hundreds of business entities worldwide and, through a program of live seminars, with thousands of people of all ages in all walks of life.

Meanwhile, in addition to his international best-seller You Were Born Rich, he found time to author other works as well, including Mission in Commission, The Winner’s Image, The Goal Achiever, The Success Series, The Success Puzzle, The Recruiting Puzzle, and Being Your Very Best. The experience of hearing and seeing Bob Proctor lecture is a memorable one, packed with the information, inspiration and wisdom to transform the lives of everyone in his audience. Unlike many programs, which convince you, that you can do anything you set out to do, Bob Proctor’s programs complete the creative cycle by explaining what you must do, why you must do it and, more importantly, how you must do it.

You Were Born Rich

His extraordinary teaching ability has won Bob acclaim around the globe and has carried the Canadian-born motivator to the far reaches of the earth. He is as well known in Australia and Malaysia as he is in Alberta and Mississippi. Testimony to his ability to reach people and teach them how to become successful is his work in the insurance industry. In this bastion of self-starters and personal motivation – where competition, denial and rejection are awesome negative forces – Bob regularly conducts corporate sponsored seminars here and abroad for some of the world’s largest insurance companies. To his credit, he has generated a long list of phenomenal individual success stories.

One of Bob’s most powerful principles in his book, You Were Born Rich is the principle of letting go and letting God.  He explains, “If we take it and relate it to goals, where people get hung up on goals is that they’re trying to figure out how it’s going to happen before they set the goal and anyone who has every accomplished anything of any consequence has never known how it’s going to happen.  I always point out that how is God’s job and what is your is your job.  You decide what you want done, and God does the work with and through you.  Clarence Smith is a man who I haven’t seen for years but he’s a brilliant guy who I asked what was faith to him and he said, ‘faith is the ability to see the invisible, to believe in the incredible and that will permit you to receive what the masses call impossible.’  The ability to see the invisible…there’s a power flowing into your consciousness and you have creative faculties in your consciousness that enables you to build an image of anything you want – anything…no limits! No one can alter it, no one can shorten it, and no one can change it.  You have the ability to picture anything you want – to see the invisible – you see it before its moved into form.  To believe in the incredible…its incredible to believe that there’s a power that’s resident in every cell of your being and when you take that image and mentally let it move into the subjective form of your mind, that part of you will instantly and automatically alter the vibratory rate of your body, change your behavior and change what you attract into your world.  It will manifest the image you hold in physical form. It’s an absolute law!”

If it’s so simple then why don’t we take action and make it happen Bob?  “Well, we don’t think.  We don’t see it because we’re trained to see just through our eyes.  I remember spending five years working with Earl Nightingale many years ago and he said, ‘if more people said what they were thinking they would be speechless.’  When you hear that it sounds pretty funny, but if you think about it, it’s true.  Most people mistake mental activity with thinking but it’s not.  They’re going to old movies and if you stand back objectively and observe peoples behavior, it’s obvious that they’re not thinking or they never would do what they are doing.  On the other hand, if you listen to their conversation, it’s obvious that they are not thinking or they would never say what they’re saying.  I think it was the late and great doctor Ken McFarland that said, ‘two percent of the people think.  Three percent think they think and ninety five percent would rather die than think.’  Thinking is the highest function we’re capable of and if you want to do something and you think about how you can, the way will be shown.”

Bob sees himself as an educator with a gift to reveal to others the secrets that turned his life around and the incredible power and potential they hold within themselves. An unabashed entrepreneur, his philosophies are set forth in his international best seller You Were Born Rich, where it encourages people to prepare for their own success by revising their attitudes toward wealth. Paraphrasing, he says it’s good to be wealthy and that money is good as long as the individual rules the money and not the other way around. Further, he explains how to employ self-imagery, incorporate, and develop each individual’s spiritual side in the quest for wealth and success. Bob’s deeply held beliefs and common sense approach to teaching creates a new set of mental reflexes to guide people to properly set goals and thereby improve their lives. “Many of our decisions are made purely on the mental reflexes we’ve built up through similar decisions made hundreds of times over the years. In fact, we spend a great deal of our lives on autopilot,” he says. Bob does his best to get people off autopilot and into success.

Helping employees grow, improve and adapt to change, Proctor’s wide-ranging work with business and industries around the world extends far beyond the pep rally syndrome. Instead, it encompasses working with business entities to develop strategies that will assist employees at all levels to grow, improve, and adapt to the ever-changing nature of all commercial enterprises in today’s business atmosphere.

Bob believes that you must have vision in order to create wealth but there are many ways to envision something, especially wealth.  “It has to be service oriented because wealth is a reward received for service rendered,” Bob explains, “You have to have an image of doing something that’s extraordinary and I think everyone wants to.  I believe we’re spiritual beings and the essence of the human is spirit and spirit is always for fuller expansion and expression.  That means there’s something within you that wants to express itself in a greater way and that will keep you wanting more than what you got, wanting to do more – jump higher, run faster, make it bigger… It’s not to have it or to do it, it’s to create the awareness that you can.  You have to have a vision of what you want.  Most people compromise, they’re not going after what they want at all, they’re going after what they think they can do.  Going after what you think you can do is never going to inspire you so you’ll probably quit.  We should ask ourselves ‘what do I want?’ and throw away all of the limits.  It doesn’t matter what it cost, what help you’re going to need or what’s required – just what do you want? When you decide on what you want and you take that in your mind, you will attract everything that is required for the manifestation of that image.”

So, there’s a difference between want and need?  “I think a person should look after their needs because if they don’t take care of their needs, they’re going to have a very difficult time focusing on their wants.  However, taking care of our needs is such a puny, little thing to do – anybody can take care of their needs.  If a person is not thinking, they may have difficulty.  There was a time when I didn’t think and I had a difficult time taking care of my needs but as soon as I began to think, I never had a difficult time taking care of my needs and I’ve always gotten what I wanted.”

Expect An Abundance

On page 92 of You Were Born Rich, Bob says, “…before any of us can even begin to overcome the poverty which surrounds us in our external world, we must first conquer the impoverishment that is buried deep within ourselves.”  Bob explained further in our interview, “That goes back to the conditioning again and the conditioning controls the vibration you’re in.  The vibration dictates what you will attract.  When we start to understand our relationship with Spirit or with God and how our mind functions then it’s easy to start to expect great things to happen because you know what the creative process is.  When you really understand the creative process, expectation is a natural thing.  Expectation is a mindset that controls the vibration you’re in and that controls what you attract into your life.”  So, expectation is then faith in action?  “No, I don’t think so.  I think expectation is more of an intellectual thing and faith is more of a subjective thing.  Faith comes from understanding.  Faith is an emotional thing – it has more to do with the subjective mind.  Expectation without faith is useless – it’s wishing.  It’s the understanding that gives us the faith.  With knowledge, you wouldn’t need any faith.  This is really paradoxical because the more knowledge you have the more faith you have and the more knowledge you have the less faith you need.  It’s a real paradox.”

If someone is born into poverty and is never exposed to the possibilities of wealth and freedom, how do you convince these people that they are not living their true potential?  “The odds of them making it are pretty slim, however, I do believe a person born into dire circumstances and there are certainly a number of them, I think spirit is resident there and it’s omni-present.  I think spirit is pushing at their consciousness to do this.  If they let the old paradigm control them they won’t do it but every now and then you’ll see a person come out of the ghetto or out of a very bad situation and they follow that impulse from inside and they step out and things start to happen and they do it.  I also believe that you and I have a responsibility to try and reach out and wake those people up.  That’s what I spend my life doing.”

Further Reading

THE SECOND COMING OF RICH DAD

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
As noted in my interview with your husband above; in 1997, the Rich Dad phenomenon occurred; becoming a New York Times Best Seller and has remained on the New York Times Bestsellers list. Robert has sold out Madison Square Garden and now the book has come back to number one which I believe has never happened in the history of publishing. How do you handle that success?

Kim Kiyosaki
“It’s amazing and has definitely hit a chord; we’ve actually tried to put into words what that chord is and we haven’t been successful at that. I think it may be different for everybody. We do know that people want control over their lives and when you feel out of control financially, you can’t have freedom until you have financial freedom and I really believe that. I think the chord is people are tired and don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel. They are working until the day they die and I think Rich Dad gives them hope that there is something they can take control of and they can have the lifestyle they want and not be a slave to the system.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
With the book Prophecy, you and your team went head to head with Wall Street. It got kind of rough in the media for all of you, didn’t it?

Kim Kiyosaki
“That’s a really big question and a really good question because Prophecy took on Wall Street and we were saying things that flew in the face of what Wall Street was teaching but more importantly with the media, especially print media; they were the toughest. We were going against what their advertisers were promoting and that was stupid to be honest! We had to sit down and ask ourselves, why are we taking on Wall Street, is that really what we want to do? Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here because these magazines are coming after us and do we want to spend our time fighting Wall Street or do we want to spend our time educating people? Actually, it was a good wakeup call for us because we made our point — got the attention — now lets make it the most productive so we can educate the most amount of people rather than fight battles that may not make the most sense. Wall Street has been around a little longer than us. Now what’s happening because we backed away from that, financial experts are now coming around and saying that what we said was actually true. We got quiet and then history supported what Robert said in his book.”

KIM ON INVESTING

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
I remember interviewing Rabbi Benjamin Blech and he wrote a book called Taking Stock where he lost 7 million in the stock market which Robert predicted would happen in Prophecy. If you don’t know how to invest, you have no where to go.

Kim Kiyosaki
“I think you are absolutely right and it’s easy to buy and sell stock but it’s also the riskiest thing people can do. People’s biggest fear is the fear of losing money. That is why they are so afraid to invest. I’ve had people say, ‘I’m not going to invest.’ I would say, ‘Why not?’ They’d say, ‘Because I’ll lose money.’ They think investing means they are going to lose money so there is this huge fear and it’s everywhere. USA Today came out with a study and they found that the number one fear in America was people were afraid of running out of money by retirement.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
How important are assets?

Kim Kiyosaki
“Robert called me one day and was serious. He said, ‘Tell me what you are passionate about?’ Wow, that’s a big question. I thought about it and then said, ‘Passive income.’ He says, ‘I knew it! Me too!’ To me that’s what assets are, assets are; freedom. We went to New York City a couple of weeks ago and saw this condo for sale. Beautiful condo, two stories looking down on Times Square, we made the offer. Lets just go and buy it and we’ll use when we want to use it and for some reason I just could not get my mind around it. I thought, if we buy that, it’s not going to give us any cash flow and we could put all of our money into something that could give us cash flow. Robert says, ‘We’ve made enough money, we can buy stuff without it giving us cash flow,’ and I said, ‘I don’t know if I can.’ We were looking at this condo in Hawaii and I had the same dilemma going on in my head. I have been so trained and inundated with this thinking that it is hard to shift out of it. Most people have investments but not necessarily assets. They may buy an investment property that is losing money and call it an asset but it is an investment. Your home could be an investment depending on how the market goes but I would not call it an asset.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
Talk to me about the difference between capital gains and cash flow.

Kim Kiyosaki
“We don’t typically buy a property because it is going to appreciate. We buy a property that is going to make us money the day we buy it. It’s going to put money in our pocket every month whether we work or not. So many people buy property and stock thinking that it’s going to go up and that they are going to get the capital gains. What happens is they sell it, get the capital gains and blow the money. My assistant who worked with me a couple of years ago bought a little duplex that was giving her nice cash flow and she decided she was going to sell it and take the cash to pay off her school loans then she would be out of debt. I said, ‘No you’re not! You don’t want to do that because then you have no asset and you are back at ground zero with no cash.’ She refinanced it, got better cash flow and her cash flow is now paying off her school loans. People have been so trained to buy things for capital gains but to me cash flow is wealth. Cash flow says, ‘I can live and survive this many days, this many years without having to work and the cash flow is just going to keep coming in. its freedom verses the quick flip.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews
You said something very intriguing and that is neither of you ever have to work another day in your life. So what motivates you to stay in the game?

Kim Kiyosaki
“We love the game! That’s the bottom line, I read an article that talked about retirement and it’s not all its cracked up to be. You can only play so many rounds of golf and tell the same old stories over and over again. That’s why I look to our new rich dad, Frank, we’ve known him since 1996 and he’s 84 and he’s traveled to China for our gold deal and he’s traveled to Canada and all over the US, his mind is sharp as a tack and he will work forever because that is what keeps him young. It would be nice to take a break though.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews

To Kim Kiyosaki a break might be a little different than what most people would consider to be a break. What is your definition of a break?

Kim Kiyosaki
“A break might be if I took a year off and spent some time in Hawaii, a few months in New York, play some golf, buy real estate. I love real estate. It’s hard for me and Robert to go to any city and not look at the real estate and make an offer somewhere. In our business, my love is the marketing and PR. What would be the vacation would not to be involved in the day-to-day operations of it, that would be a break.”

Read the Kim Kiyosaki Library

Read Part 1 of 3 – The Currency Couple:
An Exclusive Interview with Kim Kiyosaki By Philippe Matthews
http://bit.ly/6zvIrZ

Dr. John P. Hayes

Dr. John Hayes is the man who literally wrote the book on network marketing. Co-authored with Zig Ziglar, Network Marketing for Dummies was a global success for those seeking quality information on the subject. Dr. Hayes’ defines network marketing as, “Not complicated at all. Every adult, kid and teenager is into network marketing. Everybody is a network marketer; but not everybody gets paid to be a network marketer. It’s nothing more than telling other people about something that you like, a product, a service or an activity that you enjoy doing and you’re passing along a recommendation or referral. Now, professional network marketers do that and get paid for it. Network marketing is nothing more than telling people about something you’re excited about and encouraging them if they show some interest to buy it also, and if you’re the one that can make that happen, you’re going to get a cut of it.”

More people and cultures are beginning to recognize that becoming financially independent is possible through network marketing, if you have the patience to build your network. “It’s a way of building residual income,” Dr. Hayes offers. “If you work for someone to do a particular job or someone hires you to do a project and they say they’re going to pay you $500, and you do the work, you get your $500. Yet, if I sell you on the idea that you really should be taking these tablets for your prostate and it’s not a one-time deal, I’m going to make money without ever having to resell you again and I continue to make money. Residual income is what everybody wants because it allows people to take charge of their lives. If I don’t want to work today, I don’t have to and the income is still going to be there. If I decide that I do want to work today, but I only want to work half a day, that’s ok; too, because residual income gives you that freedom.”

A prolific writer, popular speaker, seminar leader and consultant to businesses in the United States and internationally, Dr. Hayes is an advisor to small business owners, independent distributors, franchisees and franchisers. Following ten years as a college professor, Hayes started his own Public Relations Agency, which he operated for ten years. Since selling his agency in 1995, he has devoted his time to writing, conducting seminars and marketing consultations. Coming from the franchising industry, becoming a success and expert in network marketing was a simple step for Dr. Hayes. He says network marketing has been around for years. “It has existed since the beginning of time. A lot of people will compare Jesus as the greatest network marketer of all because he got twelve people together and 2,000 years later, we’re still practicing what they were networking to people about. As for the future, it’s only going to get bigger and better. In a time of a slumping economy, network marketing will become more popular and more people will get into it. Everybody is getting laid off; so, what are those folks going to do? Some of them will get into network marketing and many large companies are starting a network marketing division because word-of-mouth is the way to make it happen.”

MLM’s On the Comeback

For many years, multi-level marketing (MLM) or network marketing companies were looked down upon and developed a bad reputation for those serious about making money via residual income. Dr. Hayes offered, “People don’t like to be sold; they like to buy and there are some crazed, idiotic multi-level marketers that get carried away. It’s hard to sell you on anything, but very easy to show you by example to get you to buy into something that I’m doing. However, if I keep trying to beat you over the head and sell you on my product, then that gets offensive. There were some MLM companies that used a ploy to invite you over for dinner and you went under the guise that it’s a group of friends getting together and at the end of the dinner or desert, they pulled out their brochure, their products or videotape, that’s offensive. Don’t lie! If you’re going to sell me, tell me you’re going to sell me because that gives sales a bad name and MLM a bad name. Unfortunately, it’s still happening today. Smart network marketers and MLMer’s—they understand they’ve got to get you to buy in emotionally first, and not try and sell you when you don’t want to be sold.”

Choosing the right MLM can be difficult, if you allow it to be. However, Dr. Hayes is very straightforward in his approach to finding the right network marketing company for you. “In Network Marketing for Dummies, we really lay it out. If I were coaching somebody on how to pick the right company, the first thing that I want to know is that it’s a product that I personally like and use, enjoy and give to my mother. That’s the kind of enthusiasm you need to have for the product or the service. People who go into it with the idea of not caring what they sell and just want to make a lot of money, are not going to hook up with the right opportunity. Chances are, they’re going to get involved with something that’s not going to last very long. If you go to the Direct Marketing Association or buy some of the magazines that talk about network marketing, you’ll find something you’ll like. So, that’s your first step is to find something you like. Then, investigate the company and find out if they have been around awhile. If you’re going to get involved with a company, it would be a good idea to look at their track record to verify if they have been in business for at least three to five years.”

On of the growing concerns in the MLM industry is saturation. Is it true that a company that’s been around for more than ten years has tapped out its recruiting stream? “That’s far from true. People joined the Amway Corporation; and even today, still succeed in that business; so, it is right for some people. Unfortunately, most of the startups do not last between one to two years so you’ve got to keep that in mind. You might be excited about the product but the company may not have the financial wherewithal or management savvy to keep the business afloat.” After you’ve found the right product and the right company, Dr. Hayes says, “The third thing, which is really critical in choosing an MLM, is to find the right upline. This is the person who you’re going to sign up under and become your upline. That person can become your mentor, or coach and will help you through the startup phase, will help you when you’re discouraged that things aren’t happening, and will teach you how to do it correctly.”

Some key questions you want to ask your potential upline when someone introduces you to a new network marketing company are:

• How often am I going to hear from you?
• What kind of support will you give me?
• What can I expect from you?
• Will you send me any business?
• Will you make three-way telephone calls with me?
• Do you train and coach me over the telephone or the Internet?

“I think those kind of people are key,” Dr. Hayes admits. “I’ve frequently had good coaches and mentors; and in turn, like to think of myself as a good coach and mentor to people where I can, because it all goes back to Zig’s golden rule philosophy, ‘If you help enough other people get out of life what they want, you’ll always have in life what you want.’ That’s empowerment!”

Zig Ziglar

Making Money with MLM’s

Another myth that must be debugged when considering using an MLM to create long-term residual income is that it’s not a get rich quick program; rather, it’s a get rich very slow program, which makes it highly duplicatable. “Prior to writing about network marketing, I use to look down at network marketing; because I spent 20 years writing about franchising.” After completing his doctorate at Temple University, Dr. Hayes founded The Hayes Group to promote businesses internationally. The boutique agency grew to a staff of 16 professionals with billings approaching $1 million. The agency’s specialties included public relations, international promotions, domestic franchise development, and marketing programs for franchisers, franchisees and small businesses. Hayes later founded the Franchise Information Network, to generate sales leads for franchise companies.

Hayes has become known to the franchise community internationally through articles, books, and public seminars, including numerous annual presentations to franchiser and franchisee audiences. He is a frequent guest on radio and television to promote franchising. In 1994, he was featured in a 30-minute television infomercial called, “The Power of Franchising.” Dr. Hayes says, “I’ve worked with a hundred different founders and presidents of franchise companies throughout America and network marketing was always like a step below franchising. Then, I began looking at the network marketing industry when the book opportunity came along with Zig and; suddenly, I turned around my opinion of network marketing. It is true that most people who get in to it will fail. This is not as true in franchising because you’re paying so much money up front. In network marketing, you can pay $50 to $500, and most people can afford to do that. But, the risk is that they’re only going to lose a couple of hundred dollars and unfortunately, most people go into it with the wrong mindset. They think they’re going to start making money right away. If you invest $150 in something and think you’re going to be making $10,000 a month within 90 days, you’re smoking something – it’s not going to happen.”

Dr. Hayes says that in the six months of research he did for Network Marketing for Dummies, he met and interviewed more millionaires than he did within 20 years working in franchising. “These are people who all worked hard—it wasn’t handed to them. There are a lot of stories where folks come from having very little and they were sick and tired of being sick and tired. They had to set goals, which are very important to understand that you’re not going to be able to quit your day-job right away; you’re going to have to work at this. You might set a goal where in one year, you’ll be able to quit your day job; but it’s going to take about three years to really make the big bucks.”

Another factor Dr. Hayes says you must be ready for is the rejection. “It is risky because you are going to be rejected when you start telling people what you’re doing. Consequently, they’re going to think pyramid and you’re going to have to put up with that for a period of time until you start turning the corner— then, they’ll be coming to you asking, ‘What do you do?’ Even then some of your friends will not believe that it’s not illegal or you didn’t just luck out. It’s simply following a system like any other good business.”

Most people believe that network marketing companies are in the business of recruiting as many people as possible to make money, when Dr. Hayes says that is the opposite. “Good network marketing companies don’t want you because you have $500 to pay. That’s not what they’re looking for at all. Here’s something you need to learn, be cautious about who you take money from. Even though it may be $49.95 for a sign-up or whatever it might be – why bother? There’s not enough money in $50 to try and talk somebody into joining when they are not going to do anything. When you’re a network marketer, you’re out recruiting, top people say this, and I say it in the book, ‘I am not sure that I’ll let you signup… I’m not looking for just anybody to signup, you can buy my product, but I don’t know if I want you to signup under me because I’ve got to invest a good six months or couple of years with you; and I don’t know if I want to do that if you’re not serious. You’ve got to demonstrate to me that you want this badly enough and if you do, then I’ll take a chance with you.’ That’s the attitude of top network marketers and good companies – they have a selection process.”

Philippe “SHOCK” Matthews is the Founder of SHOCKwealth System Financial Destiny University Program; an online university program that teaches three systems of success: wealth mindset, internet marketing and network marketing. For more information on how to become an instructor at SWSu, please visit www.shockwealthsystem.com.

KIM ON THE CREATION OF CASH FLOW

Philippe Matthews
Tell me how the conversation goes when Robert comes to you with this idea about Rich Dad and the Cash Flow game.

Kim Kiyosaki
“He had been working on Rich Dad for years. Neither of us had any inkling or ever thought this would be the success that it is – not a clue! He wrote this book, we printed a thousand copies and thought we would give it away for Christmas presents for years and it will be done. He wrote it, it’s done, it’s on paper and it’s recorded. He spent a couple of years working on this book and as he was working on that he said, ‘I have this idea about a game.’ And the game is really everything we’ve done in our life in terms of how we invested and how we got out of the rat race. Even all those deals on the fast track, they are all somehow related to us. We have done most of them or all of them, failed on many of them and we have lots of memories but the story on that is when we sold our business in 1994 to an education company and we were trying to figure out what we wanted to do next, I thought maybe I would go do my own business and he start his own business and maybe we would do it separately this time. We went to New York City right before Christmas in 1995 and you know on the Today Show when they go outside? If you look there is sign that reads Dean & Deluca; it’s a coffee shop? Well, we were sitting there one morning and the Today Show was taping and we started talking about this cash flow game and it was there that we decided we were going to do this together. We were going to be business partners and see where this takes us. We built the game in 1996, launched it actually in Singapore in October of 1996 and launched it in the US in November 1996.”

Philippe Matthews
How did you meet Sharon Lechter?

Kim Kiyosaki
“We met Sharon when we were beta-testing the cash flow game. Robert was looking for a patent attorney and he called me one day and had interviewed three. He called me from his car and said, ‘Okay, I’ve got good news and bad news. The good news is I found the perfect patent attorney. The bad news is he is the most f#$% expensive attorney I’ve ever met!’ That was Michael Lechter (Sharon’s husband). One day I was driving to meet with Michael and he was charging $500 an hour! I’m driving down there and thinking, ‘I don’t have anything specific to talk with him about, maybe I should call and cancel the meeting?’ I almost picked up the phone and cancelled it and said to myself, ‘No, no, no; I made the appointment – go through with it.’ I don’t know why I even asked Michael this question but I said, ‘Michael, we’re looking for someone to help Robert complete his book. It needs editing and needs some work. Do you know anyone who writes?’ He said, ‘yeah, my wife Sharon.’ We had met Sharon at a beta test a couple of months earlier and that’s how Robert and Sharon became writing partners. Sharon also helped us out when we were doing the game and would meet with us, give us ideas on the corporate side and helped us set up the business. She gave us a lot of free advice with no agenda.”

Philippe Matthews
Tell me about Robert’s new rich dad and your partnership with Sharon.

Kim Kiyosaki
“Robert has a new rich dad, his name was Frank and he had taken sixty six companies public. We’re having lunch with Frank one day and he has been one of my best teachers. He’s 84 years old and is just as curious as a five year-old, he’s just amazing. Frank turns to us and says, ‘Okay, you’ve got this cash flow business now.’ He turns to Robert and asks, ‘You want to run this thing?’ Robert goes, ‘Heavens no, I don’t want to run this thing.’ He turns to me and asks, ‘Do you want to run it?’ I already know I am not good with day-to-day stuff, I don’t do it well. He says, ‘Well you better hire a president.’ I said, ‘don’t you have to bring somebody in and train them; get them comfortable with the business and get them to learn it?’ He says, ‘No, put an ad in the Wall Street Journal, there’s plenty of people out there, hire somebody.’ One day we were talking with Sharon, sitting down at her dinning room table and said, Sharon would you like to be our partner? That’s how we became partners. We are all equal partners in the business and to this day we still abide by our same policies; decisions are not made independently, we all make them together. Somebody will come and say, ‘Well, Robert agreed to this.’ I’ll look at Sharon and Sharon will look at me and say, ‘No, he did not because we haven’t talked with him about that yet and he would not do such a thing.”

Philippe Matthews
Did you ever feel this was something divinely guided and produced?

Kim Kiyosaki
“I do! This may sound strange but I really felt when we made that decision at the Dean & Deluca Coffee Shop, I got very calm. It felt like the Great Spirit — some people use the word God — I use Great Spirit was saying, ‘Just do it and it will work.’ The book just surprised the heck out of us, we just had no idea.”

Philippe Matthews
How did that level of success affect you?

Kim Kiyosaki
“I would like to think it hasn’t changed us much but there are a couple of things that certainly have changed and I have to say my relationship with Robert and our marriage has become much stronger because we battled through everything from 1985 to now. We can now sit back and take a breather. One big thing that has changed is because we are so much in the public when we do these events; we really have become more private. We really value our time together and our time alone. A lot of our friends are the same friends.”

KIM ON THE ADJUSTMENT TO SUCCESS & WEALTH

Philippe Matthews
With friends, you can change or trade them in, but family is another issue. How has your family adjusted to your wealth and success?

Kim Kiyosaki
“We’ve had some interesting changes just in the last month. My family and I have always been very close. I have two older sisters so there is five of us and when Robert and I were going through our very tough time, they were very concerned and there was definitely tension but they were always very supportive. Robert’s family on the other side, he and his brother were at odds for many, many years. There was a bit of anxiety because Robert had written a story about their dad and some people felt he made fun of his dad which he really was not doing. So, there was some animosity there. Just recently though and this was the neatest thing, Robert’s brother, John and his son Jason who is sixteen years old, last year we were talking with them and said, ‘We’re doing this seminar,’ and Jason got interested because we did this one day event in Honolulu and Jason wanted to come to the event. We brought them both over and Jason got really turned on by real estate and now his older brother is interested and we get this letter from Jason saying, ‘I just want to let you know that at 16 years old, these courses have changed my life. I have a job selling window tinting. I am researching all of the real estate in Honolulu and my life has changed forever!’ Robert’s brother, John who was always in his own world and really not interested is now turning his life around and actually got a position with a property management company to learn property management and learn real estate. That has been pretty spectacular!”

Philippe Matthews
I hear it in your voice that there is a massive passion to teach. Where did that come from? You came from being an “E” on the Cash flow Quadrant but you don’t have an “E” (Employee) mentality.

Kim Kiyosaki
“That’s a really good question because my father was an employee all of his life, he was in sales for a paper company and everybody around me were all employees. I didn’t meet any entrepreneurs or business owners growing up but I think when I got fired twice from my first job; to be honest, I hate being told what to do. That was the problem! They wanted me at the job at a certain time and it was very structured and I am not structured. Thank God I didn’t move to New York City that would have been a huge mistake. The teaching part for me comes from people coming up to me at the events and asking questions. They are so interested in learning and they are so excited that they (Robert & crew) have to sometimes pull me back and tell me the show is about to start and I just want to talk to people. If I can share something that I have learned and make it a little easier for somebody else, great! What happens is it comes full circle because I’m always looking for new teachers and looking for new information and I find that people really do want to share what they know. Not everybody but the majority of them and especially successful people, I find that they do want to give back and they do want to share their knowledge.”

KIM ON RICH MARRIAGE POOR MARRIAGE

Philippe Matthews
I see a book coming from the two of you called Rich Marriage Poor Marriage!

Kim Kiyosaki
“There you go!”

Philippe Matthews
Speaking on that, how important is it to do what you do and be married to the right person?

Kim Kiyosaki
“Good question. I knew from the very beginning that I wanted my life partner to be my business partner. I don’t recommend it for everybody. I know some couples that would probably kill each other but when Robert and I have an argument, it’s always about business – it’s not personal, it’s about business; that’s where our biggest blowups happen. When it works, I think it’s brilliant. I am not the same person I was back in 1986 when we got married. You grow, you learn and a lot of people grow in different directions.”

Philippe Matthews
What happens when two evenly yoked people grow in two different directions and try and maintain a marriage and/or a business?

Kim Kiyosaki
“I would think that would be hell to be honest and I hear that a lot from women and men – ‘I really want to move forward but my partner is not interested and how do I get them interested?’ That’s the million dollar question. It’s like anything when you have a team and especially with marriage, you always have something to talk about. I see these couples at restaurants, older couples, and they are just sitting there with nothing to talk about. Robert and I always have something to talk about, it’s always exciting and we’re always sharing. We don’t have kids by choice. We love our lifestyle, we love to travel and Robert asked me earlier about my reaction toward having kids and I was in my late twenties and said, ‘Not right now, maybe later but it’s not a high priority for me.’ He thought I was lying and trying to trick him. We love our lifestyle but I see couples and all they have in common is their kids and then when the kids move on they are left with ‘Who are you?’ I think the main thing with couples even if you don’t work together is you have to grow together. We have a policy that anytime one of us wants to attend a seminar, we both attend. A lot of times, we will read the same books and then discuss it. When you attend a seminar, it’s really hard to explain it and verbalize some of the things that happened because sometimes a light bulb will go off or a mind-shift change and its hard to explain that in words. But it is really easy when your partner is sitting there next to you, experiencing the same thing you are.”

Watch and listen to what Robert Kiyosaki has to say about the importance of being in the right relationship to be rich!

Read the Kim Kiyosaki Library

Read Part 3 of 3 – The Currency Couple:
An Exclusive Interview with Kim Kiyosaki By Philippe Matthews http://bit.ly/bAgqsT

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